Posts by Bart Belteshassur

3

'Tis the season!

by Gypsy Sam in

my daughter and i decorated our first holiday tree over the weekend.

white with teal, blue and magenta.

it came out very pretty!

Bart Belteshassur

Sorry I forgot, have fun and enjoy them all, it's a great time of the year.

3

'Tis the season!

by Gypsy Sam in

my daughter and i decorated our first holiday tree over the weekend.

white with teal, blue and magenta.

it came out very pretty!

At least Hanukkah celibrates a real event in history, where as christmas was stuck in here because easter took over from the passover, penticost remained and the day of attonement became the harvest festival and there was no where else for it to go. Jesus was born in March the NT tells us this fact why do christains not read the text?

16

Archangels

by dog is god in

beng raised n da troof i thought there was one archangel, michael ( aka jesus ).

so i am talking to a woman who mentions that she named her cats after the archangels (plural).

how could i have missed that little gem?

Bart Belteshassur

The NT names three of the archangels. Michael (who is not Jesus), Gabriel, and Phanuel (luke 2:36).

224

Another problem for JW apologists

by Jeffro in

the 2013 edition of the new world translation renders 2 kings 17:1 as:.

in the 12th year of king ahaz of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king over israel in samaria; he ruled for nine years.. this is in fact a better rendering than the previous nwt, which stated:.

in the twelfth year of ahaz the king of judah, hoshea the son of elah became king in samaria over israel for nine years.. despite their improved rendering, the watch tower society still claims that hoshea's reign 'really' began in 758 bce, but that it was 'established' in the 12th year of ahaz.

Bart Belteshassur

Marked

6

I am looking for a page

by Doug Mason in

hi,.

i am looking for a scan of: the interpreter's dictionary of the bible, edited by george a. buttrick, volume 1, page 166.. thanks,.

doug.

Bart Belteshassur

I'm with Kate, give us a clue what your up to?

13

What is your view on the true meaning of the feeding of the 5000 and 4000?

by Bart Belteshassur in

i have always been somewhat amazed that the jw and general christian view on both these events only focus on the supernaturel abilities of chirst to provide to the hungry mutitudes.

this is then used as evidence that he will and is feeding and providing for all on earth and thus is an indication of his loving and giving nature.. as a simple and dismissive explaination of the factual material contained in both events and the complete disregard of the fact that the gospels clearly state that the events have a far more significant meaning that even the twelve appear not to understand, and is never explained by christ, i am of the view that these two events and those which are associated with them must hold a much higher significance than any christrain religion has ever given them, due to their lack of understanding also.. has anyone ever looked at these events more closely?

has anyone on this ever come up with an explaination with to regard to the no of loafs, no of fish, and the no of baskets of fragments, and also their timing in the year and week when they occured?.

Bart Belteshassur

Bobcat- On the question of the priest, who would have been a levite, again I have some recolection of a 13th loaf in addition to the 12 of the presence, specifically for the consumption of the levites. I wonder if the fragments were carried on apostelist mission as a token of the Passover? I will carry on trying to dig this out.

BB

13

What is your view on the true meaning of the feeding of the 5000 and 4000?

by Bart Belteshassur in

i have always been somewhat amazed that the jw and general christian view on both these events only focus on the supernaturel abilities of chirst to provide to the hungry mutitudes.

this is then used as evidence that he will and is feeding and providing for all on earth and thus is an indication of his loving and giving nature.. as a simple and dismissive explaination of the factual material contained in both events and the complete disregard of the fact that the gospels clearly state that the events have a far more significant meaning that even the twelve appear not to understand, and is never explained by christ, i am of the view that these two events and those which are associated with them must hold a much higher significance than any christrain religion has ever given them, due to their lack of understanding also.. has anyone ever looked at these events more closely?

has anyone on this ever come up with an explaination with to regard to the no of loafs, no of fish, and the no of baskets of fragments, and also their timing in the year and week when they occured?.

Bart Belteshassur

Bobcat- On the question of the priest, who would have been a levite, again I have some recolection of a 13th loaf in addition to the 12 of the presence, specifically for the consumption of the levites. I wonder if the fragments were carried on apostelist mission as a token of the Passover? I will carry on trying to dig this out.

BB

13

What is your view on the true meaning of the feeding of the 5000 and 4000?

by Bart Belteshassur in

i have always been somewhat amazed that the jw and general christian view on both these events only focus on the supernaturel abilities of chirst to provide to the hungry mutitudes.

this is then used as evidence that he will and is feeding and providing for all on earth and thus is an indication of his loving and giving nature.. as a simple and dismissive explaination of the factual material contained in both events and the complete disregard of the fact that the gospels clearly state that the events have a far more significant meaning that even the twelve appear not to understand, and is never explained by christ, i am of the view that these two events and those which are associated with them must hold a much higher significance than any christrain religion has ever given them, due to their lack of understanding also.. has anyone ever looked at these events more closely?

has anyone on this ever come up with an explaination with to regard to the no of loafs, no of fish, and the no of baskets of fragments, and also their timing in the year and week when they occured?.

Bart Belteshassur

Bobcat- Still thinking about the substance of the narrative. I note your point regards the size of the baskets used to collect the fragments, the "provision basket" being large enough to hall Paul up the wall in Damascus, and the "basket" a smaller size to carry on a journey.

The 7 and 12 baskets appear to me to relate to time periods, 7 days, and 12 months. I wonder if the 5 plus 7 loaves which equal 12 refer to the "loaves of the presents" in general terms and the 5th and 7th loaves refer to positions held by the heads of the 12 tribes. I am trying to remeber where I have come across this before, I think there is a connection in the monastic documents from the Dead Sea Scrolls?

prologos- I agree with your point that the supernatural story of the feedings didnot happen, however I am not dismissing the event information due to it's written appearance. I believe that the gospels contain a true and accurate account of the historic events of this period and for numerous reasons, the main one as you note, they are clovered and hidden. In order to understand the true meaning of the text we need additional knowledge which if the early church would have had, and probably still do, but the need for the cash was better accomplished by the use of the myth than the factual events.

13

What is your view on the true meaning of the feeding of the 5000 and 4000?

by Bart Belteshassur in

i have always been somewhat amazed that the jw and general christian view on both these events only focus on the supernaturel abilities of chirst to provide to the hungry mutitudes.

this is then used as evidence that he will and is feeding and providing for all on earth and thus is an indication of his loving and giving nature.. as a simple and dismissive explaination of the factual material contained in both events and the complete disregard of the fact that the gospels clearly state that the events have a far more significant meaning that even the twelve appear not to understand, and is never explained by christ, i am of the view that these two events and those which are associated with them must hold a much higher significance than any christrain religion has ever given them, due to their lack of understanding also.. has anyone ever looked at these events more closely?

has anyone on this ever come up with an explaination with to regard to the no of loafs, no of fish, and the no of baskets of fragments, and also their timing in the year and week when they occured?.

Bart Belteshassur

Eyeuse2badub- Agreed.

pixel- Yes forget the facts of the account and turn it to the spiritual food of the GB.

DD- I think I'd rather worship the mighty DD, I'll get a response and alot more sense.

BB

13

What is your view on the true meaning of the feeding of the 5000 and 4000?

by Bart Belteshassur in

i have always been somewhat amazed that the jw and general christian view on both these events only focus on the supernaturel abilities of chirst to provide to the hungry mutitudes.

this is then used as evidence that he will and is feeding and providing for all on earth and thus is an indication of his loving and giving nature.. as a simple and dismissive explaination of the factual material contained in both events and the complete disregard of the fact that the gospels clearly state that the events have a far more significant meaning that even the twelve appear not to understand, and is never explained by christ, i am of the view that these two events and those which are associated with them must hold a much higher significance than any christrain religion has ever given them, due to their lack of understanding also.. has anyone ever looked at these events more closely?

has anyone on this ever come up with an explaination with to regard to the no of loafs, no of fish, and the no of baskets of fragments, and also their timing in the year and week when they occured?.

Bart Belteshassur

DD- Are you suggesting then that the numbers and details written into these passages have no purpose and are just irrelevant? Seems to me that the four goseples which carry the events of the 5000 must view it with the importance of the crucifixion, and therefore it has much more significants than we tend to give it credit.

Is the surface story just milk for the babes?